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Having worked as a producer on films such as American Anthem, Jacknife and Eye For An Eye and represented artists at two agencies, Kathryn Knowlton knows the business of film making. Today, as president of Creative Script Services, our resident Hollywood Guru turns her unique talents and connections to shaping screenplays and giving aspiring screenwriters and film makers access to Hollywood. This month we are pleased to offer Ms. Knowlton's recent interview with Richard Donner, director of The Omen, Superman and Lethal Weapon.

Interview With Richard Donner by Kathryn Knowlton

KK: Hi Dick. Thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule.

DD: It's a pleasure.

KK: Can you tell us a little bit about how you got into show business or what appealed to you about show business?

DD: I was born into it. As a child my grandfather had a movie theater believe it or not, and my mother used to leave me in the back row of the theater so that she could talk with her sisters all day. I would just sit there, practically an infant, and stare at the screen.

KK: So you became a movie buff really early on?

DD: Truly, it's true. Anyway, and then I wanted to be an actor. I started acting in the Province Town Players, Cherry Lane, and little theater groups. I started with David Alexander, a great coach.

KK: How did you switch over to directing?

DD: My first job was with a little non-union film company-- painting sets, acting, driving a truck, editing, anything I could get my hands on.

KK: So you really did everything you could to get you foot in the door?

DD: Anything I could do. And then I got a small part on an NBC show called the Robert Montgomery Playhouse. I had five lines. Actually I had less, I had two lines. The director was Martin Ritt. The day of the dress rehearsal before going on live that night, for some reason I did something different than the way I had rehearsed it before and the way [the director] had blocked it. So he came storming out asking me what I was doing, and he said "Well your problem is that you can't take direction. Do you want to be a director?"

KK: So how did you react to that?

DD: I told him that it was easier said than done, and he made me his assistant. I became his assistant for quite a few shows. He was on the blacklist. A great career went down the tubes because of a very sick group of people, although he did eventually come back and go on to become a great director, Martin Ritt.

KK: So where did you go from there?

DD: My next step was that I went to work for a very wonderful man named George Blake who was a writer, a director, and a cameraman who had been nominated for an Academy Award when he was only 24 years old for a documentary. When I met him, [George] was 34 years old and he had had a heart attack. He had this little, tiny company, and I got a job, driving him, being his assistant.

KK: So you're about how old now, in your early twenties?

DD: Yes, and I fell madly in love with film. Because I had never seen film before. It was always taped, or live, and I had never gotten to see the film end of it. With George I learned the difference that in film, the equipment conceded to the actors, where as in "live", the actors had to concede to the equipment. I was there for four years and I graduated up to directing commercials and documentaries with him, until he died a tragic death at 38. I started a little company of my own which was bought by a larger, Los Angeles based company, which flew me to California. I scraped by directing commercials and occasionally acting. Then I ended up directing all the commercials for Desilu. One day I was on the set directing Desi and Lucy, and this guy came over and says, "If you can work with them, can you work with Steve McQueen?." Steve and I had been actors together in New York. So I got my first experience directing a dramatic show. It was "Wanted Dead or Alive", starring Steve McQueen.

KK: That's terrific. We all hear these horrible stories about Hollywood, best friends stabbing each other in the back for a project, friendships falling apart over credit. Can you tell us, has anything like that ever happened to you, or vice versa, has anyone ever stood up and done you a real solid?

DD: I had done hundreds of T.V. shows, quite a few pilots, was a script doctor for a while, and had done a couple of small features that didn't do very well. I got my hands on a script called "The Antichrist", and I read it and it was phenomenal. At the time, Alan Ladd who had been my agent, was now running 20th Century Fox, and by coincidence, I was having dinner with him and his wife the next night. So I took the script with me, and said, "You've got to read this script this weekend." He called me at midnight and said "you've got a deal". That was just what I wanted. So I called the producers of the script, Harvey Bernhardt, and Mace Neufeld, who didn't even know I had it, and I told them, you've got a script that's in turnaround, nobody wants it, and I just sold it to Fox.

KK: They must have been thrilled.

DD: Wait, the next morning they took a meeting with Alan Ladd. Mace Neufeld was all excited and said, "Listen, lets get rid of Donner, there's this other director that we want to use". And Laddy said, "He brought it to me, and the only way I'm going to make it is if he directs it." That turned my life around. It's all about loyalty. It was phenomenal.

KK: That I assume was "The Omen".

DD: That was "The Omen". That picture had been turned down by every, single studio in this town including Fox.

KK: So do you credit your relationship with Laddy, for getting the movie made?

DD: No, I would say it was perseverance.

KK: I know you had already done "The Omen", but a lot of people consider "Superman" your big break.

DD: Actually, It was "The Omen". "The Omen" got me the offer on "Superman". The Salkins called me one morning, said they were doing "Superman". They hadn't even seen "The Omen", but were going with whomever was hot. So they sent me a five hundred page script and said, "it's two movies, shoot it". So I read it and said that I wouldn't do it with that script. After a lot of negotiating, they accepted me and my writer, Tom Mankowitz and we rewrote it and it was a big hit.

KK: I know you were on the fence about doing that movie. Can you tell us how you decided to do it?

DD: I put on the costume one day. When they sent me the script, they sent me this costume that they had made out of leotards, practically. One day, I put on the costume, and Mankowitz was coming over to talk about writing it. As he got out of his car, I came running across the lawn in my red cape trying to get off the ground, and I think I did. He looked at me and we both started laughing and realized that, oh my God it's true, we can bring this guy to life. So the costume did it.

KK: Do you have a Hollywood war story?

DD: They're endless. You bring your script or book to somebody, they discuss it with you, and then you pick up the trades in two weeks, and there doing that book that you brought to them with somebody else. There are endless stories in this town, but there are also the good ones.

KK: Can you tell our subscribers, most of whom are aspiring screenwriters what elements you look for in a script and conversely, what turns you off?

DD: I don't look for much. For me when I read a script, I start to see it. I shoot it in my mind. If I don't start to see it, I put it down. But, if I decide that I want to see that movie made the way I want to do it, I commit myself to it.

KK: So the story has to grab you?

DD: Yeah, but for me, its becoming emotionally involved with the characters as they come alive on that page, and if I'm into them, I want to live with them right to the very end. If that happens, then I'm desperate to bring them to the screen. So for me it's really very simple. It's all about the characters.

KK: If you were carte blanche given an unlimited budget, do you have a specific movie in you would want to make, or is it more "you'll know it when you see it"?

DD: No. I have a specific movie, It's being written right now.

KK: Can you tell us about it?

DD: Nope, can't tell you about it. Hopefully you will see it very soon.

KK: Where do you normally get your material from?

DD: We get it from a million places. We get it from agents, studios, production companies, and of course CSS. I love that CSS sifts out new writers, new people, and if they think that there is something there that is special, they put it on our doorstep. That way we have an opportunity to see material that hasn't been shaken out by every studio before it gets to us.

KK: You've worked in both television and features. "Tales from the Crypt" was extremely successful, and I know you're making more T.V. deals. Do you prefer one medium over the other?

DD: I don't direct television anymore very much really, I mean I did it when we starts the "Tales" series to get it going, Bob Zemeckis, and Walter Hill, and myself. We were all partners and directed them. But there's no business like the feature business.

KK: Do you believe the stigma is now gone from directors doing cable T.V. and even episodic?

DD: Totally. Not only is the stigma gone, it's a great place to find new directors. So no, I don't think there is a stigma anymore whatsoever. There used to be. It used to be, that if you did a comedy you couldn't do a drama, if you did a drama, you couldn't do an action, if you did an action, you couldn't do a soap opera. If you did a commercial, you couldn't do a T.V. show, if you did a half-hour you couldn't do an hour. Now it's over. Direct. Get out there and direct.

KK: Do you have a favorite movie, either yours or anybody else?

DD: No, I don't. I don't have any favorites. If I started mentioning my favorite movie, it would end up being fifty or sixty movies because I'm the world's worst critic. I love movies. I get into a theater and I'm totally immersed and committed to what I'm seeing on the screen.

KK: Do you have a director who's work you particularly admire?

DD: Lots, lots and lots. And every time I go to the movies I find another new one. Somebody new that's come along, or somebody old that's done something unusual, or different. I'm always looking to find somebody new that inspires me.

KK: You've had a phenomenal career. Is there any advice that you can give to our subscribers who are trying to break in?

DD: Yeah, don't stop. Keep knocking on doors, keep pounding at them. Write, direct, do what ever it is. If you're confident and you believe in yourself, that's the only way that it's going to happen. I'd say you just keep pounding at it. Rejection just makes you grow a little more interesting and a little different. Every divorce you go through in life, makes you a little more interesting for the next person.

KK: There's a great saying that in every rejection there's a protection.

DD: Every rejection has a protection? I think that's a mistake, because then you build a facade around yourself of protection rather than allowing yourself the freedom to be outside and open. I think there's a danger of becoming a wound that heals and scars. I think you want to leave those wounds open because you're growing from them. They're all wonderful experiences.

KK: Thanks again for being so giving of your time and of yourself.